PK appeal - Ernst Stiglitz

[forzen]

Character's name & rank:  Leutnant Ernst Stiglitz

SteamID32: STEAM_0:0:645939357

Staff member who issued the PK (if you know): Coffee (if this is wrong mb had to ask another staff for the name of who pk'd me)

Explain why you were PK'd:  No Idea, I never got pulled into a sit and found my character pk'd. I'm assuming it was some fear rp related.

Why should you be un-PK'd?:  Was not properly pulled into a sit, When asking for a clip of why I am PK'd on my character I was told by a staff (Mr History) there was no clip he could show me regarding the incident. After a Quick check of rules provided by this very forum it states. 

PK- Guidelines, Pk is not allowed if: 

3. Not using PKs as a LAST resort.

4. Attempt to resolve the matter using other means which don't involve PKing first, unless it is deemed impossible, and agreed upon by the approving staff member.

5. PKing someone for the sole purpose of taking their job/title.
  

Also it is stated in
General Rules:

1. You must have a valid RP reason to kill someone. You may shoot someone if they damage you with a weapon/vehicle. You may not shoot someone because of their physical appearance, faction or simply because they insulted you. You must give someone a verbal or text warning and allow them 10 seconds to respond before escalating the roleplay. Following this warning, you may kill them if they pull out a weapon. Do not bait someone to shoot/RDM you, and do not punch minge or initiate arguments to harass someone.
   
   21.  If you wish to request a permanent kill on another player, you must ensure the kill follows the PK guidelines.

I was arrested by the Lapo and then release we had a argument they then tried to arrest me again after just letting me go and i said "am I'm being arrested in front of the reichstag?" while they were pointing there weapons ( I had no gun out and was standing still) they then shot me without warning. I thought nothing of it spent a minutes of the server afterward and had to get off for the night cause it was late for me. 


Additional Information: Summary: Got released from jail, Lapo tried to arrest me again asked them a question and they shot me. I was never put in cuffs I didn't run off from them and most importantly I valued my life and asked them a simple question to which they killed me without a warning before hand of any kind. 

 

Edited November 27, 2024 by forzen

[Coffee]

Hello there I was the staff member who issued your PK.

What happened was that you threatened to "Hang me from this courtroom" so then I ordered your arrest.

Then myself and another member of the Landespolizei surrounded you and placed you under gun point and told you that you were under arrest.

You then decided to break fear RP by radioing in to your Military "I'm getting arrested outside the Reichstag" so you were then shot.

Putting you under the PK guideline "Being killed while not abiding by Fear-RP".

Here are some rules which you should be made aware of:

General Rule:

7. You must always value your own life through FearRP. Failure to abide by FearRP can result in your character being permanently killed.

Life Rule:

1. You must value your character’s life. This means that you naturally do not want your character to die (FearRP). Breaking this rule can result in a permanent kill, but will not result in warnings/bans.

Fear RP rule:

2. Acting in complete disregard for your life and being killed can result in a PK at staff's discretion.

Metagaming Rule:

4. You cannot call for help within Discord or any other 3rd party service while being mugged/held under FearRP as you would not realistically be able to contact others while under FearRP.

Now I'll respond to some of the things you said on your post.

The reason you were not pulled into a sit was because when I attempted to bring you to a staff sit around 5 to 10 minutes after the situation had happened you had already left the server.

Then you listed the following rules:

"Not using PKs as a LAST resort."

Not every PK requires "last resort" or has to be "last resort" thats just a general guideline more assosciated with NHC PKs or those requesting a PK on someone else for something they did In character where it goes to a member of staff to review to either approve or deny a PK and they would take into consideration if this PK would be last resort or not. This was a fear RP PK you broke fear RP and died in this situation if you did not use your radio you would have been arrested and this situation would have been avoided and your character would not have been PK'd.

"Attempt to resolve the matter using other means which don't involve PKing first, unless it is deemed impossible, and agreed upon by the approving staff member."

You showed no regard or value for your life in this situation as I said before if you did not use your radio to call in for backup you would have been arrested and this situation would have been avoided and your character would have not been PK'd.

Had you not been shot It's more than likely I would have got arrested from your call for backup or faced some sort of IC consequence. And again this is more of a general guideline for requesting a PK on someone else for something they did In character where it goes to a member of staff to review to either approve or deny a PK taking into consideration if the person requesting the PK would be able to resolve the situation without PKing them. Every PK guideline does not apply to every single situation that's why there are many different PK guidelines.

"PKing someone for the sole purpose of taking their job/title."

This does not apply for this sitiuation at all and this guideline is not relevant to this sitiauation. It would not make sense for me as the Police President (Oberst) to want and take your position as a random Military Leutnant.

"You must have a valid RP reason to kill someone. You may shoot someone if they damage you with a weapon/vehicle. You may not shoot someone because of their physical appearance, faction or simply because they insulted you. You must give someone a verbal or text warning and allow them 10 seconds to respond before escalating the roleplay. Following this warning, you may kill them if they pull out a weapon. Do not bait someone to shoot/RDM you, and do not punch minge or initiate arguments to harass someone."

You were killed for a valid reason you were held under gunpoint and were being placed under arrest and you radioed in for backup from the Military after you had just threatened to Hang me.

"If you wish to request a permanent kill on another player, you must ensure the kill follows the PK guidelines."

The PK guideline you fell under was Government Criteria number 5: "Being killed while not abiding by Fear-RP [PK]".

"I was arrested by the Lapo and then release we had a argument they then tried to arrest me again after just letting me go and i said "am I'm being arrested in front of the reichstag?" while they were pointing there weapons ( I had no gun out and was standing still) they then shot me without warning. I thought nothing of it spent a minutes of the server afterward and had to get off for the night cause it was late for me."

Here is what actually happened: https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/j9ZhNW1dWDDNz6CSh?invite=cr-MSxSQ0UsMjAyOTcyNTEwLA

Interesting how you decided to leave out the context of were threatened to "Hang me from this courtroom" you also lie and say that you said to us "am I'm being arrested in front of the reichstag?" when you actually said "I'm being arrested outside the Reichstag" on your radio to the Military. And from looking at the clip you can see you pause and hesitate right at the end of your sentence because you knew you messed up and you knew what you just did was going to get you shot and PK'd.

"Got released from jail, Lapo tried to arrest me again asked them a question and they shot me. I was never put in cuffs I didn't run off from them and most importantly I valued my life and asked them a simple question to which they killed me without a warning before hand of any kind."

You did not value your life in this situation at all think about it in a real life context if two police officers had guns pointed in your face and told you that you were under arrest would you pull out your radio and call for backup? I don't think so because you would be fearing for your life.

You did not just "ask us a question and we shot you" and I have provided proof that you are lying about that.

Overall If you did not threaten to hang the Police President from a courtroom and then radio in for backup while you were under fear RP and getting arrested this whole situation would have been avoided and your character would not have been PK'd.

[forzen]

I can understand where your coming from Coffee but your still forgetting a couple things. As it states in the rules "You must give someone a verbal or text warning and allow them 10 seconds to respond before escalating the roleplay."  Even when it comes to people who are being mugged/detained. I was trying to talk on radio (but it was off) and there was quite literally noone but me on at the time in the Heer there were panzers but I don't have any control over them to begin with. Secondly, You cant say my character wasn't valuing his life as I didn't run, I didn't pull a gun, I didn't begin to attack you or the other lapo and you yourself already knew I have surrendered and have willingly been arrested just seconds before this incident so you can't not reasonable say yourself that I have no regard for my characters life even within knowing me for just that short few minutes. Also "You cannot call for help within Discord or any other 3rd party service while being mugged/held under FearRP " In-game radios are not 3rd party service they are a server intended feature.  3rd party is a application that exists outside the bounds of the server by that definition the in-game radio does not fit with what you are saying also even if it is a matter of meta-gaming that is still not a PK-able offence that is whole other can of worms that would equal to other things however still it is stated in the meta gaming rules subsection "Any 3rd party Voice / VOIP program is considered OOC while in the server. In order for you to communicate with other players, you must use in-game chat or voice functions, we added radios for this exact reason." I don't mean to be rude in anyway toward you but the subsections dictate exactly how you are supposed to interpret the rules and this is in the meta-gaming section under Imperial-RP guideline directly above the rule your are using in your argument against me.  

Too conclude,  You did not give me within 10 seconds to warn me other then to say I need to stop moving which I followed once you and your other lapo had guns pointed at me and asked you "am I'm getting arrested outside of the reichstag?" as I was confused with what it was your doing arresting me again after you just let me go. I didn't talk on my radio as my radio was still turned off when you came running from behind me my dumbass just didn't realize it at the time and I was wondering why it was so quiet also when a  person is placed in cuffs as it is literally automatically turned off and even in the clip I never turn the radio back on cause you would be able to hear the unique beep it makes when turned on.  Still radio's are not a meta-gaming mechanic as they are intended to be used on the server even tho there fucking annoying and the meta-gaming subsection says "you must use in-game chat or voice functions, we added radios for this exact reason." it's very dumb I'm sorry I get your frustration but to the letter of the rule it is something that is not a PK-able offence even if it was used nor is it something you can kill another over unless you specifically warned the person your detaining about it. I always say to people "Stop moving, Don't resist and Don't say anything."  when I arrest them. Also sorry I miss quoted myself I though I remembered saying "being" instead of "getting" once again I was tired and I didn't think I would be here writing this so my bad along with my microphone cuts off what I say when I begin/end sentences sometimes also you yourself misquoted what i said in the clip said so I think we can just leave that too being a coincidence. Also " It would not make sense for me as the Police President (Oberst) to want and take your position as a random Military Leutnant." Would believe you on that count if it weren't for that you went to NSB and how they seemingly didn't care to which you yourself then decide to arrest me after my threat along with you leaving out the context of how we got to the those courtroom stairs to begin with and left out you had already just arrested me without any issue merely several seconds before hand.  We are both trying to make stuff equal up here in this appeal but were both off just a bit to where it's not getting the right answer fully. I thank you for responding Coffee but this is not the first time we've interacted so please don't act like it is I am very stubborn and so are your that's why I enjoy your characters that you play. Anyways have a good day.

 

Edited November 27, 2024 by forzen

[Hound]

Denied.

You blatantly threatened the lives of several individuals under the Police President's command, which is an extremely foolish thing to do if you don't anticipate consequences. In addition, you alerted your fellow faction members when you were under FearRP, thus showing a lack of regard for your life.