Hauptman Adawolf Lange PK Appeal

[Patriot_of_usa]

Character's name & rank: Hauptman Adawolf Lange

SteamID32: 76561199109752634

Staff member who issued the PK (if you know): I do not know

Explain why you were PK'd: A Ksd man wanted to join KG so I took him to the officer to discuss the him joining and the proces, once inside he told me get against the wall and I did but I cried to a man outside to help so he tried Ksd shot me and my man, then I respawned and so did my guy as he was running out of the KG base I tried to punch him my guy then shot him I took 2 men who had not died to come with me to arest him I thought since they had seen it tecinicly it would not be me who arrested him but then. So we tired to put him in cuffs he shot all of us then I rally KG to find him.
Then im in the god box and I get PKed.

Why should you be un-PK'd?: I did not understand the rules correctly what was I supposed to do let him leave KG base and just let him go free??? Should I have unlocked my gate for him and let him on his merry way, I did not know that it would be Fail RP if my 2 men who had not died arrested him. I simply did not understand the rules.

Additional Information: I mean this will not matter but I have worked from grenadier up to become hauptman and deputy chief of the 1st battalion and to lose it over a mistake.

[Coffee]

Hello there I was the staff member who issued your PK.

Here are the clips I was provided:

https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/jaJsirq16vMdKKkiF?invite=cr-MSxYTEEsMTU3MzA0NTE3LA

https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/jaJv2KJPJYksH9BYi?invite=cr-MSxhREwsMTU3MzA0NTE3LA

So firstly you were tied up and kidnapped and while you were kidnapped with your captor right next to you and you decided to scream out for help which in my opinion that is you showing no regard for your life and you were not valuing your life in that situation.

Then when you respawned and you started chasing the guy who killed you and you were trying to punch him again showing no value for your life.

Then later on you went to arrest him for him killing you so this is you breaking NLR.

Overall I believe this PK was justified and the PK guideline you fell under was "Being killed while not abiding by Fear-RP".

[Tank]

Coffee; Hello, I am the RCSM within the KG for context;
what Lang (Patriot) did was retarded, on multiple levels. However the Individual who took the clip, Initiated fear RP without a clear valid reason, He is not a policing agency and was before this incident considered rouge according to  Sharp, as well Angel. 

Furthermore, this isn't an appropriate place to mug him Either considering it is an office with an armed guard in front of it and within a guarded compound, and a large amount of people lived too re-inform lang of the incident, as outlined in life rules and mug rules.

Furthermore what he did could be considered a raid which can only happen with admin approval or appropriate larp, none of which where followed. this was clearly a minge char or otherwise an intended bait PK as I see it.

 

+1 This app, Even though its written like dog shit.

Ps. Running at him with fists was retarded. however, the incident shouldn't have happened in the first place if it weren't for this unapproved raid and this terribly orchestrated Fear RP initiation.
PPs. For final decision I urge that you take this interpretation into consideration.
 

Edited November 29 by Tank

[KaiserKrause]

Good evening/morning, giving context as tank did above me, Lange is my deputy. 

The situation from both parties was a clusterfuck to say the least, Lange is new to the game mode and some of the rules that follow. So it is difficult to truly say who was at fault, KSD for intentionally going into the KG base with the sole intent to bait an officer into getting alone in a room to mug them? or KG for chasing and attempting to detain a guy who in their mind RDM'ed them?
I would personally say this falls on both parties, what took place shouldn't have happened in the first place and the escalation to detainment and PKing someone whom you shot twice was unnecessary and an act of complete disregard to the fact this is a server based around ROLEPLAY and the KSD would have 0 reason to mug or kill kaisergrade.
Was lange a dumbass? Yes. but does he deserve to be PKed? No. on the fact that he hasn't been able to fully grasp the rules and couldn't truly understand the situation he was in RP wise. 
As for the KSD, lying to enter a compound on the pretense of a transfer is one thing. but going out of your way on a powergame against someone whom you have no legitimate RP knowledge or information on aside from the fact you lied to them and then shot them for no legitimate in RP reason. 

in terms of rules broken.
Lange did yell for help which is technically a breach of fear rp but ANY player on this server regardless of rank, position or experience would call for the help of a guard/compatriot if they were outside the door or nearby if their life was in danger. It is a natural response to fearing for you life to call for help. 

As for the KSD, he lacked any real rp reason to go to the KG base and "mug" lange. he was by himself, and was seeking to kill someone whom his character has no information on. he shot all the KG present and that should have been the end of it. He disregarded his life when he enter the KG base with the intent to mug or kill someone without reason. 
 

+1 not because i have a connection to lange, but due to the fact both parties acted completely braindead in both situations and not how they're characters would act in a real RP scenario. A void on the situation would in my opinion be a more acceptable route. 

Edited November 29 by KaiserKrause

[Nasty]

Hello, I was KSD who was arrested/kidnapping your guy I just want to clarify one thing in the rules there’s no such thing as I need to have a proper RP reason to mug a person that doesn’t make any sense or wouldn’t make any sense to begin with because like in real life I don’t need to have a reason to rob a gas station people can do it because they can and again I want to clarify just because it was a compound doesn’t mean it’s immune to have secluded places like those offices not to mention just because him “was in his own mind” mean, he can just go back and nlr as it seem like you should just break a rule if someone else breaks a rule and again I don’t need to have a proper reason to mug it doesn’t matter if a Kg and KSD are perfectly fine with each other and I will say just because he didn’t know the rules doesn’t mean he should be exempt from them and no, it’s not a natural response to call your life  if the guy himself is pointed the gun at you because  you should understand that the last thing you wanna do is give him a reason to shoot and you screaming for help is that reason even though I did die at the end of the clip, the person who killed me was the said person I passed in the hallway, which would mean he also nlr  also, you both failed to mention how in the second clip he not only broke nlr again. He then proceeded to try to hunt me for something that he shouldn’t remember. That’s to mention I didn’t clip this or tell us to coffee but after a while, I switched to my staff to see himself leading the entire of the KG on that day to capture me again even though he pretty much died all three times and to Kaiser and what did how did I power game when there was nothing I did and here to take advantage of I just told him a lie that I wanted to transfer he believed it, and I told him get against the wall he did and then scream for his life. There was nothing power game about that and I wanna ask an interesting question to Tank what do you mean before the incident I was going rogue according to Sharp an angel did you talk to them and view this clip and talk to them about the situation that in reality you should have or they should have no knowledge of ever happening because everyone evolves around the situation died  I have no hard feelings towards this guy and again, I don’t want us to come off as hostile I just simply wanted to do something risky that day on my character who has medals and has grinded the ranks to get to KSD I have no bad intention for a guy and I’m sorry they had to come down to this, but he made the choice. I just simply took the action.

Edited November 29 by Nasty

[Tank]

Too the NLR Question;
"If you are a surviving witness, you are able to tell the people that were NLR killed what happened. This is all taking into account that your "memory" is refreshed after you died, by someone who witnessed the event that incapacitated you, or by someone who got informed by a witness."

Too the validity of the Original scenario, Your weapon was away;
"f the player with the weapon puts it away or turns his line of sight (meaning the player has completely turned away and is not even slightly facing you or has entirely shifted their focus away from you (this is usually at an angle of larger than 90 degrees)), FearRP will no longer be in effect and you may take this window of opportunity to retaliate with little to no risk. (This rule does not apply if you are being mugged by more than one person, as you may choose to retaliate if they retreat but you cannot request a PK on any of them)."

Too the validity that you where in a too public place too mug;
"You may not mug in a public place. You can; however, pull a weapon on them and bring them to a secluded area to rob them (This can only be done when there is no one else around). Ex: The victim is alone at night in the middle of an empty street. You initiate a mugging with your firearm and take them to an alleyway so no one stumbles upon the crime. You may not perform the mugging in the street, which is a public area."

Too the validity that this is an unapproved raid;
"Raids performed on government buildings by approved criminal organizations are to be directly approved and overseen by a member of Upper Administration. Any raids within the above criteria that have not been approved appropriately and overseen by an appropriate member of the staff team are seen as FailRP and RDM for any and all individuals who die during said raid."

Now, your weapon was put away when Lange called for help, When Lange attacked you with his fists it was done not following Fear RP however, that was done in the defense of a raid conducted by you without UA approval or any approval and you didn't fullfill the criteria either. the 2nd clip I haven't seen the full clip of you following them on your admin char which is a crazy statement, but clearly you didn't kill all of them and they utilized there NLR Exemption Rules done deal. As for being removed by Angel and Sharp I talked with them 2 or 4 hours after the situation ICly They said they believed it was a rouge member of KSD.

[Nasty]

one this wasn't a raid just cause i mug one guy doesn't make a raid
two that place was  secluded and nobody was near or could see into said place@
three no everyone who saw it died it would be nlr
four what do you mean I didn't kill them all there was three in the second clip???? and yes i followed on a admin after they broke NLR the second time which i was more in my right to do so as i was going take them to a sit till I saw what he was doing
five no you don't have any ic proof to talk to them cause everyone who was involved in the situation died and how would you know about it if everyone died and since you did it anyway this also means you pretty much meta game it
and six your whole point is that i "raiding" a place to mug a guy still doesn't excuse what he did he didn't fear for his life he  then proceed to nlr and try punch me after he died and the nlr AGAIN to tie me up with people and again try's to hunt me with the entire of kg of that day just to tied me

Edited November 29 by Nasty

[KaiserKrause]

So, you In RP decided your character who is a member of a government faction dedicated to protection. Decided it was acceptable in RP to mug a member of another government faction whom is allied with you, for the sole reason of "in real life I don’t need to have a reason to rob a gas station people can do it because they can" this isn't real life. Its 1940's imperial Germany. 
You have to act as someone from that time as that is the point of this being ROLEPLAY. No you wouldn't mug a member of the kaisers personal guard as a decorated member of the party/states personal guard for no reason other than you can. it makes no sense for your character to want to do that in the servers setting. And under that pretense i could say "well the KG can just hold the counsel meeting under fear rp and take over the server because they wanted to" it doesn't work that way, and we use common sense in every rp situation we are in.
when you said " you should understand that the last thing you wanna do is give him a reason to shoot and you screaming for help is that reason" 
there are hundreds of cases on this servers history of people screaming for help under fear rp and their captor shooting them and that being the end of it. You intentionally started the situation and proceeded to use that situation to PK a high ranking KG officer whom had done nothing to you. 
the fear RP should not be grounds for PK in this scenario. as you put your weapon away while he was tied which took him out of fear rp. what followed was not a fear rp kill but a RDM as you did not attempt to tell him to be quiet or stop yelling, which is a breach of fear rp rules 

"If you're holding someone under FearRP and are issuing them orders/warnings to not do something, and they disobey you, then you may kill them; however, it should not be your first choice of action. In this situation, one single warning/order will not suffice, multiple warnings in a very short time span will also not suffice, you must give them adequate time to react. When in game, you are actively a part of the roleplay, and therefore you must also be actively aware of your environment as well. Any excuses such as “I couldn’t hear them because my headset was turned off” will not be permitted. Outside elements of the game cannot be used as an excuse to avoid FearRP or being PK’d (i.e. being AFK)." 
 you not issue any other order in the clip, you just shot him. 

as for the response that the place was secluded, " Secluded and non-public areas include; Alleys, dark corners, areas void of other players or abandoned buildings, 

you were in the KG compound, in the barracks with windows all around. and a guard was present outside the room. this is in no way a secluded place. it is a barracks that is full of members of a faction who can hear gunshots and commotions. 
 

also you being a member of staff, while i am not a member of staff on this server, i have been on others for years. Why would you who is meant to be dedicated to making the server function smoothly and cooperatively seek to cause chaos and pk players? Not that you can have a char and play the server but as staff you have responsibilities to uphold and causing major discourse in a faction does not seem like one of them. 
Why would you swap to staff char after being in a serious rp situation? you don't know if there were other members that you didn't see and they could have seen exactly what you looked like and what you did. almost like you're tring to hide from what you did as its not acceptable in any scenario. 
 

Edited November 29 by KaiserKrause

[alex.]

6 hours ago, Nasty said:

Hello, I was KSD who was arrested/kidnapping your guy I just want to clarify one thing in the rules there’s no such thing as I need to have a proper RP reason to mug a person that doesn’t make any sense or wouldn’t make any sense to begin with because like in real life I don’t need to have a reason to rob a gas station people can do it because they can

'I staff a RP server but I don't like to RP'. Does it makes sense to you that not NEEDING an RP reason explicitly doesn't mean you shouldn't have one because you should be RPing a character? Isn't that what FailRP exists as a rule for? Is this not a textbook example of ruleplay? 

 

6 hours ago, Nasty said:

That’s to mention I didn’t clip this or tell us to coffee but after a while, I switched to my staff to see himself leading the entire of the KG on that day to capture me again

I switched to my staff character to spy on the faction I just tried to bait a PK out of???? Hello??? 

 

6 hours ago, Nasty said:

I wanna ask an interesting question to Tank what do you mean before the incident I was going rogue according to Sharp an angel did you talk to them and view this clip

Here's my involvement. This entire situation where you're still pretending to be KSD shouldn't have happened. According to Angel, who dismissed you, and without any evidence to the contrary, you were fired from the faction and then took advantage of the fact that trusted doesn't exist anymore and just logged off the char before you could be transferred out of uniform and had your named changed. 

However, you know better. And I expect fully that you know better because you're staff. Frankly, if you were a semblance of someone who cared about the actual "roleplay" (which you already indicated you don't because you don't "need" an RP reason to do things) then you would've transferred yourself out. What you did if all of that is true, and again, I've seen no evidence to the contrary, is you LEFT TO AVOID ROLEPLAY. Under normal circumstances, that would be a ban. 

This entire thing is ridiculous.

 

PS. Learn to use periods between complete thoughts. You're 21. 

[Nasty]

when did I say or imply to spy on a faction to bait out a pk or what pk? I feel you guys just taking examples and making them look extreme just because your friend got pk for breaking nlr and not mentioning when has a mug need a whole fucking backstory just to rob a guy that makes no fucking sense I don't see an rp reason why the ksd and kg shouldn't mug each other and either Angel is lying or you guys lying but I was told to be put in reserve I even have a document saying I was honorably discharged so I don't where the fuck you guys are coming up with this and to kaiser why would it be a serious rp situation if the guy in question broke nlr three times i guess i shouldn't enforce the rules of the server?? not to mention getting arrested and even if you guys say I went to staff I was going bring to him a sit and ask why is coming back to break nlr????? and the one more thing tell me when in the mugging rules (since you guys want to act like this) i need to have a rp reason to mug someone at this point that wouldn't make sense at all no it's doesn't whether or not i was a member of ksd and the kg have good relationships doesn't stop me from mugging said people you're not giving immunity from said party and if you want to point out these said people who scream for help or said they are getting kidnap thought the radio they all get pk i don't get where you saying just cause sometimes people shoot them and it being the end of it doesn't mean i have to this say this is the end of because from where i see they all get pk and one last thing i never ever mug people i just wanting to do something new and god forbid i want to something different that day

PS Alex i don't get why you have insinuated that i can't spell seems like you are a bit immature for leaving such a snarky response 

Edited November 29 by Nasty

[alex.]

21 minutes ago, Nasty said:

PS Alex i don't get why you have insinuated that i can't spell seems like you are a bit immature for leaving such a snarky response 

I didn't insinuate anything. You are blatantly incapable of this basic aspect of the English language which just provides me more foundation for my non-expert opinion that comprehension is a difficulty for you based on this and your other responses.

The guy who got PKd isn't my friend, and I don't really care if he stays PKd or not; I do care about the fact that if you're gonna try to PK people, then you need to follow the rules as well. 

20 minutes ago, Nasty said:

I don't see an rp reason why the ksd and kg shouldn't mug each other.
 

I don't even want to dignify this with a response, but what a moronic thing to say. 

23 minutes ago, Nasty said:

one more thing tell me when in the mugging rules (since you guys want to act like this) i need to have a rp reason to mug someone at this point that wouldn't make sense at all.

Okay. This is called RULEPLAY. The title of the server category is "RP" this means "roleplay" if you were unaware. The Rules about RPing you BROKE are as follows:

1. You must roleplay seriously. This is the one you didn't do and have now admitted to by saying "haha i just dont need to RP because X, Y, and Z rules don't include specifically that RP is needed."

11. Avoidance of roleplay is not allowed. This one you didn't do when you decided to charswap from the KSD char you shouldn't have anymore before you could get switched out of the uniform and rank. 

44. Do not LTAP/LTARP. Already discussed. 

I'll throw this one in because you can't even spell properly here so I assume you don't in game either:

15. If you fail to use proper grammar and spelling when typing within roleplay chat, it may be considered FailRP.

[Hound]

Accepted.

While yes, the person who was PKed here did in fact break a PK guideline, and was rather stupid in the way he acted, I do not at all agree with the notion that you "don't need a reason to mug someone because that's the way it is in real life." 

There wasn't much thought put into the execution of whatever kind of roleplay this was, and I do not believe a PK was deserved. Nobody in this situation handled it appropriately. The mugger in this situation should've actually put some thought into his roleplay rather than pointlessly mugging someone inside their own headquarters, and the victim should've taken more precaution instead of breaking FearRP so blatantly.