Muller von Heinrich pk appeal

[SomethingorOther]

Character's name & rank:  Oberleutnant Muller von Heinrich

SteamID : STEAM_0:1:911503804

Staff member who issued the PK (if you know): I was told JimmyJR approved it

Explain why you were PK'd:  I was told that I "started a gunfight and died" 

Why should you be un-PK'd?:  I think I should be unpked because I dont believe I started something that constitutes a gunfight. So for context me and 5-6 members of the KG were attempting to get the papers of an non-compliant heer NCO. Due to his belligerence we resolved to point our guns at him to get him to stop moving. The others pulled out theirs guns and told the NCO upwards of 10 times to stop moving. This is when I pulled out my gun and accidentally shot the NCO in the shoulder.  I said "sorry" then began to repeat the bog standard line "you're under gunpoint, stop moving" . About 3 seconds elapsed between me accidentally shooting the NCO and the military shooting and killing me. (As seen in the clip below)  This to me is proof that there was no intent nor follow through to start a gun fight. I feel the reasoning behind the char ban is pretty flimsy. 

Additional Information: ( this clip was taken from far away so no speech from the altercation is audible)  https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/kweY87xXMl9EsnKnb?invite=cr-MSxTQkssMTEyNDAxNTU2

Edited Wednesday at 09:59 PM by SomethingorOther

[JimmyJr]

Hello, I want to make something clear, I wasn't the one who PK'ed you, but another staff member had PK'ed you and I had approved it. I approved it cause in the clip you shot at the military guy which when the other military CO saw you, he shot back. Now for you saying you might had accidentally shot him, that could be true or just a lie. It could have really been an accident but from the POV of the guy who requested the PK on you, he doesn't know that. 

[TheGaminThomas]

Hi, I was the one that handled the PK and then got it approved by JimmyJr. 

Although you claim that the shot is accidental and you had no intent to start a gunfight your intent is not what is the problem it is the impact of it. You still fired a shot which hit a member of the military in front of other members of the military which constitutes a gunfight. It doesn't matter if it is deliberate or accidental you just simply need to learn trigger discipline. As also shown in the clip you continue to aim at the NCO and even aim in which to others signals that you are most likely going to do another shot.

[SomethingorOther]

Hello! Thank you for your replies. Firstly, Jimmyjr thank you for clearing that up. The only reason why I put your name there is because although you made it clear in our sit that it wasn't you're pk it was instead a PK you approved for someone else you never told me who that was despite telling me upwards of 5 times you were the one who approved it for who I now know is Thomas. Sorry for the confusion. Secondly, Thomas if you review the clip from my PK at 17 seconds which is only a second before im killed you can see that im not in fact pointing my gun at anyone and rather im  pointing my pistol at the furthermost  half of the red wall on my left. If I had fired while my gun was in this position it would have been aiming at nobody and therefore would have hit the wall and done no harm. Although, I do not blame you for not seeing this as the footage is incredibly grainy due to the distance that person who pked me was to the situation that ended up getting my char banned. Which is another thing that id like to dispute. I don't think its right that someone who had divorced themselves from the situation on the ground, not even being able to hear the conversation what was happening should be able to PK someone over a situation that they don't have the context to. Especially when I made it clear I was not going to shoot again to people on the ground. Not only that but if I was intending to pursue any aggressive action logic dictates that I would have attempted to follow the NCO once he reached the red brick wall behind the checkpoint gate. Instead I stood where I was, not shooting at the NCO that was actively running away from me and the KG which if I was trying to start some sort of gunfight I wouldn't have done. Gunfights tend to have two sides firing multiple shots at one another over a prolonged period of time. A single shot and then no further acts of aggression I don't believe constitutes a gun fight. I think that my disengagement on a physical, although not verbal  level had been well signalled to even someone standing far away from the actual situation. This all leads me to continue to believe that my Pk is not valid. If my Pk appeal is denied the only reason I can see would be on some technicality that I don't know of as its pretty clear this is not a conventional "gunfight pk".

Edited 15 hours ago by SomethingorOther

[Coffee]

Denied.

Hello, thank you for your response. I'll address your points and clarify why the PK remains valid.

Firstly, let's talk about the situation itself. You were positioned outside the ICC, and from what I can tell, you were attempting to arrest a member of the infantry. When that individual moved way, by your own admission, you escalted the situation by pulling out your pistol and firing a shot at the member of the infrantry.

Whether or not your weapon was directly aimed aimed what them when the shot was fired is not the key issue here. The fact remains that you discharged your weapon in the direction of a the military member and opened fire on them outside of the ICC.

That is clear initiation of a gunfight, even if it was only one shot fired.

Also your claim that the shot "would have hit the wall and done no harm" does not exempt you from anything, espcially when the clip shows that you clearly moved your aim from the wall to the military member.

You should know that shooting someone is universally seen as agressive, especially when aimed towards members of the military that are outside their own base.

You also say that you were not pointing your gun at anyone, but again the clip clearly shows otherwise and you were clearly pointing your gun at the military member and you shot him, in a situation that did not even require that amount of force when you consider the context that you were heavily outnumbered outside the ICC trying to make an arrest on a military member.

You also argue that the person who PK'd you was "divorced from the situation" and you could not hear what was going on. That's just missing the point. The person who killed you witnessed you open fire on members of the military outside the ICC, and from their perspective, like most people in that scenario, you had just started a gunfight.

So then from a military point of view, seeing someone shoot another member of the military is more than enough to engage them with lethal force. People don't need to ask questions first when bullets are already been fired.

You also mentioned that if you were trying to start a gun fight, you would have followed the NCO. Again, it's not about your internal logic, it's about what your observable actions looked like to others. If you shoot at someone, people around you are going to react accordingly.

Now, on what could have been done. If you truly believed the infantry member was breaking a law or needed to be arrested the peoper course would have been to accept that he got away in this particular situation as you were heavily outnumbered and he was practically inside his base, so realistically you would not have been able to make the arrest . Then you should have done the following:

1. Get their description and rank.

2. Note any other indentifying details.

3. Write a formal report.

4. Report the incident to the NSB.

5. Then pursue them through a written warrant.

Instead, you decided to escalate the situation by shooting the military member outside of his own base when you were heavily outnumbered. That's why you got PK'd.

Lastly, you say this isn't a conventional "gunfight PK" But gunfights don't need to last 5 minutes, include over 20 people or have multiple parties involved. Sometimes they're one sided and brief and they take place outside the ICC and one shot is all it takes to get killed.

This PK was not issued on a technicality or misunderstanding, it was a direct result of your actions. You escalated a minor situation by involving lethal force, and you were met with lethal force in return.